Discussion Evening

Well, what a great night! The VHCC Book Club had its first discussion evening this week. Thank you to Lesley, Elaine, Nicole and Fiona for making the effort to come. We had a really great night discussing our books and eating delicious food.

There was a very engaging discussion about 'If I Were God, I'd End All the Pain", where we all shared our thoughts on certain ideas presented in the book. One important point that came up was how a person who doesn't believe in God, or have a relationship with God, respond to this book. Would they find what Dickson said convincing or comforting like us? It's an interesting idea.

Our discussion evening was a fabulous opportunity for us all to get to know each other more. We may have veered off the topic once or twice (or more!) but it's just so great being able to have good, meaningful conversation, without being interrupted by a one year old!

Thank you all for a great night. I look forward to our next one!

Book 2: God is Enough

Is being with God all you desire? Is He all you ultimately need? Do you shout out "God IS enough"? I know that there are times when I certainly don't think this, let alone shout it aloud, and that troubles me deeply. I think I need to get centred and focused.

I was planning on doing a different book next, but after having an interesting conversation with Rach about God is Enough, I was quite keen to read the book. What's it about? Well, here's the back page blurb to give you an idea:

"What are your disappointments in life? Perhaps, like me, you have unmet superficial desires—perhaps it is achieving that certain position in the company, or getting that high mark in a significant exam. Or maybe you are scarred by grief so profound that you can hardly talk about it. Or perhaps you're not so much disappointed as unmotivated; you have allowed the good and the not so good to hijack the best, and the passionate days of your early Christian life seem so long ago. Whatever the case may be, the issue is the same for all of us: is God enough?" With honesty and humility, Ray Galea reflects on ten psalms that have helped him put God back in the centre of his life. Ray reminds us of the many reasons we have to join with the psalmist in saying, "Whom have I in heaven but you? And there is nothing on earth that I desire besides you."

What's great about this book is that Galea encourages his readers to read the relevant psalm twice before you read each chapter. So, through reading this book, we're being encouraged to read our bibles also. I think that's so important.

I hope this book has interested you as much as it has me. Will you join me in reading it?

If I Were God, I'd End All the Pain, Pt 7 - Are All Your Questions Answered?

So, we've come to the end of reading Dickson's book, "If I Were God, I'd End All the Pain". How did you like the book? At the beginning of the book, Dickson put forward these questions:

"If I were God, I'd end all the pain, so why doesn't HE?
Is he powerless?
Is he not interested in us?
Or is he just plain not there?"

Now that you've read his book, has Dickson answered these questions? Or, more importantly, has this book prompted you to think more deeply about these issues and formulate your own response?

This book has certainly strengthened my own understanding about why God allows suffering in the world. I feel better equiped to be able to answer these questions if I'm asked. Having said that, it's not essential that we have all the answers. What's important is that we have an eagerness to keep asking questions and keep searching to understand God more. Let's encourage each other in growing in our knowledge and understanding of our Great God!

If I Were God, I'd End All the Pain, Pt 7- Chapter 6

God Has Wounds

Of all the ideas and images we have of God, I'm pretty sure that the idea that he has wounds is rarely considered. I know that it's not something that has really come to my mind before. It's an interesting concept, "God himself has wounds." In his final chapter, Dickson puts forward the wounds of God and argues that God suffers; that he is the "Deeply-Moved-Mover".

God has experienced the greatest suffering and misery ever known, which is revealed to us in the Bible. Dickson shows this to us through paralleling Psalm 22 and Mark 15. I found this a truly compelling read. I was struck by the explicit connections that Mark made to Psalm 22 as he wrote his account of Jesus' death. Through crying out, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?", Jesus was making a deliberate connection to the suffering poet of Psalm 22. Here, Jesus shares in all people's suffering and pain. He knows what it's like to experience pain and misery. Dickson puts it like this:

"God intentionally enters our pain and misery, getting his hands dirty and even bloody. This is God at his most vulnerable and yet at his most glorious."

What amazes me is that through the death of Jesus on the cross God not only suffered, but that he willingly suffered for us.

If I Were God, I'd End All the Pain, Pt 6 - Chapter 5

The Renewal of All Things

I found the ideas presented in this chapter really interesting, something I never really thought about before.

Firstly, Dickson points out that their is an intimate connection between humanity and creation. So, when "humanity defied the Creator, this had devastating consequences for the creation itself. The physical environment...fell under the spell of our displacement of God." I've never really had that perspective presented to me before and I've never really considered that the actions of man affected creation as well. I like what Dickson says about it here,

"in biblical thought the earth bears the scars...of the traumatic rift that has occurred between us and God...the physical world now contains a measure of frustration and chaos...there is enough disorder evident to remind us that things are not as they should be."

I particularly like those last few words. This makes a lot of sense to me and I feel like I can better understand the 'whys' and 'hows' of suffering in this world now.

So, what will God do?

God is going to renew the creation. Our physical existence is not going to be removed, but renewed. Things will be as they should be. Again, this is something I haven't really thought about at much length and I enjoyed reading about it. What a joy to be reminded that heaven will come to earth and everything will be transformed; a new creation.

How do we know God's going to do it or that he can do it?

Through the resurrection of Christ. Dickson says, God "is willing and able to breathe new life where there is currently death." For me, Dickson was presenting Jesus' resurrection in a whole new way. I found this was a different perspective that I hadn't really considered before. The resurrection of Jesus is God's way of showing us that he can re-create the universe.

What were your thoughts on this?

The Devil on Suffering

I came across this this post about an article from The Briefing, 'The Devil on Suffering'. It's an interesting read.

Thoughts?

If I Were God, I'd End All the Pain, Pt 5- Chapter 4

"The Justice of God”

“So much of the evil and suffering experienced in our world results from human decisions, from the potent reality of our will.”

In this chapter, Dickson presents a biblical perspective on justice and why God does not prevent pain and suffering. As you have seen, he has presented us with two ideas. One, the presence of pain and suffering in the world is due to our own free, independent will. Two, God will right the wrongs and will bring justice to the world, in his own timing.

Why does God not simply override our wills?
I found what Dickson wrote about free will really interesting and thought-provoking. In some ways we do think that God should intervene and prevent a terrible human action, like a parent watching their child would do if they saw that the child was about to do something wrong. The parent would step in and prevent the child from doing what they shouldn’t do. In some ways, I guess God does do this. He instructs us and teaches us, but we don’t listen. I couldn’t help but think that I wouldn’t mind it if God was more “active” and stepped in to stop, say, somebody from committing murder or rape. On the other hand, how would that influence us as human beings if that were the case?

As we know, there are times when a child needs to do the wrong thing in order to learn and grow into a more mature adult. So, does that mean that part of this free will business is that God is shaping us to: a) be more like him, and b) to become truly dependent upon him?

What we have to remind ourselves is that not only are we given the choice to do “bad”, but we’re also given the choice to do “good”, it’s just a bit harder for use to choose to do good, isn’t it?

I wonder, though, how we should then respond to the occurrences of the world that cause human suffering but aren’t caused by humans?

It’s helpful to remind ourselves that this world is a fallen and broken world and we should not expect things to be perfect.

The Bible’s answer is that he will do something
One day, God will bring justice. I liked what Dickson said about it: “He has set a Day of Judgement at the end of history precisely because his personality is a unique blend of pure justice mixed with boundless patience, mercy and love.” I find this reassuring.

I wonder, though, how a non-Christian would respond to this? Is this only reassuring to me because I not only believe in God, but hold onto this truth?

If I Were God, I'd End All the Pain, Pt 4 - Chapter 3

"An Invitation to Doubt" - Faithful Doubting?

In this chapter, Dickson argues that the bible, although doesn't necessarily answer all our questions on pain and suffering, it encourages the believer to openly question God. Dickson sees there's a real "tension and complexity" in the Biblical perspective.

Part of this "tension and complexity" in the Bible's treatment of suffering, Dickson argues, is the way in which it encourages or supports "our right to question God". This is interesting. I've never taken this view before and I'm not sure I agree. My issue is with Dickson's use of the words "endorse" and "right". Even though there are many instances in the Bible of people crying out "Why" to God (Dickson uses Psalm 22 as an example), I'm not sure the Bible would go as far as using these examples to say we have a "right" to question God. It's only human to doubt God and ask why (we're sinful creatures after all) and it's assuring for us to see that very faithful people experience very human feelings. But I wouldn't necessarily say that the Bible "endorses our right to question God." I don't think that it's encouraging us to doubt God nor do I think we have a right to question God.

Later on in the chapter, Dickson elaborates on this view further by further discussing Psalm 22. He sees the presence of this Psalm as a reminder "that we have God's permission to express our disappointment." Perhaps this is a better way of putting it, rather than endorsing "our right to question God."

My concern is that Dickson is only presenting half of the issue. Let me see if I can articulate this succinctly...It does appear that we have the freedom in our faith to openly question God. There are many examples of this in the bible. But, the other side of it is that we trust that God is in control, even though we may not understand why. Psalm 22 cries out, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" but in Psalm 23 it says, "My Lord is my shepherd, I shall not be in want."

But, that is the point that Dickson is making, is it not? That we have the freedom to ask why. I wouldn't necessarily say 'doubt', but we can ask why.

In Dickson's opening sentence he says, "...my own view is not that the Bible presents a crystal clear account of evil and pain...". Does he mean that the Bible does not entirely explain whys and hows of suffering? The existence of it? I'm not entirely sure I agree with this. What do you think?

I found this chapter interesting and I'm not too sure about some of the points Dickson has raised. I'd love you to share your comments and see what you thought.

If I Were God, I'd End All the Pain, Pt 3 - Chapter 2

"The Alternatives"

At the end of Chapter 1, Dickson, presented us with a difficult problem. He writes, "the presence of suffering in the world presents not so much an intellectual dilemma for faith in God but an emotional one." Basically, why does God allow suffering and what has he done about it? Before he answers these questions, Dickson delves into how Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam and Atheism attempt to answer these questions. Later, he will aim to compare these views with those found in the Bible.

Suffering as Balance
Here, Dickson presents us with the Hindu explanation of suffering. Hinduism explains suffering as "pay-back", or "Karma". This is a universal concept whereby all actions of the past will be balanced out in the present. When you experience pain and suffering now, it is because it is deserved - you have done something bad in the past. Dickson points out that this "pay-back" view also pops up in the Western world where people view there pain and suffering as "God's revenge". Dickson helpfully points out that this view is "quite foreign to the biblical perspective on suffering".
Interestingly, Dickson argues that the Hindu view of suffering is "quite satisfying and virtually impossible to disprove." But he raises one question from this: "If I were to accept that my suffering is a divinely sanctioned balance for my wrongs, is it possible to find consolation in my pain?". Can a Hindu find comfort in their suffering? No.

Suffering as an Illusion
Buddhism's response to pain and suffering is to view it as an illusion. Dickson explains it like this, "our experience of suffering was intimately related to desire or affection for the things of the world. For instance, the pain of losing my father was caused not by the crash itself, but by the affection I felt for my father." If you can remove your desire for such things, the experience of pain and suffering would be gone. I don't know about you, but I found it hard to get my head around this.
This is a very interesting philosophical concept. But how do you live like this? Well, if you are a Buddhist, you escape the 'real world' in order to 'experience an emancipation from the existence into 'non-existence', or nirvana." You have no desires or affections and so you don't feel any pain or suffering. But, is it really that easy?

Suffering as Determined
Dickinson then turns to Islam and presents its views on pain and suffering. This is rather straight forward. The Muslim understands that "all events in history are absolutely determined: from the falling of a leaf, to the trajectory of an asteroid, all of it is controlled by the will of Allah." Everything is controlled by "the specific finger of the Almighty." So, when a Muslim experiences pain and suffering, it is then an opportunity for them to "submit...to Allah's indisputable will."

Suffering as Natural
Lastly, Dickinson presents us with the Atheist view of pain and suffering. To the Atheist suffering "is just natural, the unhappy by-product of a universe driven only by the random intersection of time and space." It just is. There is "no reason, no design and no pity". Life is just a series of meaningless and random events. To me, this is very depressing.

Well, in response to this chapter, I have a few thoughts I'd like to share:

• In theory, it seems like Hinduism lacks compassion, mercy and forgiveness. If something terrible happens to someone, how will they be treated?
• I found the Buddhist viewpoint hard to extrapolate. I kept thinking, what about physical suffering?
• Siddhartha Gautama, the 'Buddha', developed this view in response to seeing pain and suffering. He wanted to understand its origin and meaning. But, how can he truly understand it without first experiencing it himself? From reading Dickson's book, it does not seem like Siddhartha Gautama actually experienced any suffering, so how would he really know? As Christians, we know that Jesus experienced great pain and suffering. Far more than I would ever experience in my life. He knows what it's really like.
• I guess with the Islamic viewpoint you don't need to question suffering, just accept it. It makes me feel very powerless, though.
• Do we seek a meaningful reason for our pain and suffering purely to make ourselves feel better about it?
  

What do you think? I'd love you to share what you thought of the ideas presented in this chapter.

If I Were God, I'd End All the Pain, Pt 2 - Chapter 1

"Why did God let Dad's plane crash?"

Despite what a lot of people believe about God, many people have the belief, whether consciously or subconsciously, that there is a God who controls all things. This belief often erupts after some major catastrophe occurs in a person's life and they will cry out, "WHY?". As a child, Dickson held this view too, "...I still held the conviction that the Creator was meant to be responsible for keeping the world together." So, when something terrible happens, we cry out, "why, God?". This reaction is only natural. We want there to be a 'reason' in an 'unreasonable' situation.

What Does the Bible Say?

In the first section of the chapter, Dickson presents a few helpful ideas about the Bible. The Bible:

• Doesn't answer all our questions

• Doesn't present a "complete and final explanation for all the evil and suffering".

• BUT does offer the best explanation, "the least incoherent one."

Dickson argues that the Bible's perspective on evil and suffering seems to be the only one that holds up against the barrage of the "why?" questions. I think it's always helpful to think about what "the Bible's perspective" is on certain issues.

Does Suffering Disprove God?

The rest of the chapter takes us on a detour dealing with the question, "Does the existence of suffering disprove the existence of an all-powerful and all-loving God?". Can God really exist when there is all this pain and suffering in the world? Surely, if there really was a God, he would not let all this evil in the world. What kind of God allows that to happen?

When we discuss the issue of pain and suffering with people, it's clear that this is the argument that we most often hear. Dickson shows us, in a very coherent manner, the logic behind this view. Evil disproves God because an all-loving, all-powerful God would not allow evil to occur. Dickson makes this clearer by separating these two views: an all-powerful God would be ABLE to end suffering and an all-loving God would DESIRE to end suffering. Interesting. Here we have the underlying issues that people struggle with when they're dealing with pain and suffering. I know that for me, the "would desire" part is the most poignant. We know that God loves us, so why would he allow bad things to happen? But, not just bad things, bad things to ME?

Dickson pulls apart the logic in these assumptions by arguing that,

"the existence of suffering could be used as evidence against God's existence only if you could first prove that an all-loving God does not have good reasons for allowing suffering to continue...Until we could show categorically that there could not be loving purposes behind the continuation of suffering, the logical force of the argument dissolves, even though its emotional force remains."

In reaching this point, Dickson alters the argument to be like this: An all-powerful and all-loving God exists - YES. Suffering exists - YES. So, "God must have loving reasons for permitting suffering" - YES? So we can understand now that the existence of suffering is not an intellectual dilemma, but it's an EMOTIONAL dilemma. When you're dealing with pain and suffering, you're approaching it from an emotional perspective, so rationality goes out the window. This is helpful to remember, especially when you're talking to someone about this. How, then, do you deal with the emotional side of this issue?

I guess at the heart of the issue, if we really delved into it further, is that we want to know what the "loving reasons" are. Will we ever know what they are? But, would that make it any easier for us to deal with suffering?

What do you think?

If I Were God, I'd End All the Pain, Pt 1 - Introduction

John Dickson sets the tone for his book through his introduction and by bringing up the idea of 'doubt'. This book, he confesses, is "a tribute to doubt." As I read the Introduction I began to question what Dickson's angle was in writing about doubt. As I continued to read and think more about this, I realised what he was getting at. Of all the myriad of issues that could possibly cause Dickson to question his faith, or to doubt God, it would have to be the issue of pain and suffering. Dickson writes, "nothing has exercised my sceptical muscles as much as the issue of human pain - mine, yours, that Kenyan baby with AIDS I'll never meet, and so on." Does that ring true in your mind? When you really start to think about it, this is a really hard issue to get your head around.

This musing prompts Dickson to bring forth some questions: "If I were God, I'd end all the pain, so why doesn't HE? Is he powerless? Is he not interested in us? Or is he just plain not there?" These are very provocative questions and I'm sure, like me, you have asked them yourself, or at least, have had someone ask you. When we think about these questions, do we really know how we'd respond?

Well, Dickson assures us he will attempt to answer these questions in his book. Let's read on and see if he does. Have these questions at the back of your mind as you read this book.

Book 1: If I Were God, I'd End All the Pain

Alright, lovely ladies and gentle gents, the first book that we will be reading for our Book Club will be....

If I Were God, I'd End All the Pain

I think all three books are great, so we'll read the other two next. I'll make an announcement at church this week (hopefully I won't be comatosed on the couch this time!), letting everyone know that we'll be reading this book, and we can start reading it after then. I'm hoping that will give you all enough time to get a copy of the book.

Who needs a copy of the book? When I make the announcement, I'll ask if anyone has a copy that they're happy to lend to the Book Club in order to save a bit of dosh (unless you're happy to ask around before then). But, if we need to buy some copies, I'm happy to arrange it, just let me know. Matthias Media are selling it for $9.50 and Koorong are selling it for $9.95. We can work out what we're going to do about this later.

THREE BOOKS IN CONSIDERATION

Well, the time is drawing near for our very first book to be read for our Book Club. Are you excited? I'm excited! From our 'On The Shelf' (see right) list, I've managed to pick out three. From these, one will be chosen.

The three books are:

If I Were God, I'd End All The Pain (by John Dickson)

A child catches a rare brain virus and is affected for life. A father dies in a plane crash. A dictator murders millions.

Why doesn't God do something about things like this? Why does he allow them to happen? In fact, can we still believe in God in the face of all the suffering and pain in the world?

In the first of a new series of short books, John Dickson looks honestly at these questions, and provides some compelling answers. He looks briefly at the alternative explanations for suffering provided by Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam and Atheism, before turning to what the Bible itself says about God, justice and suffering.


A Sinner's Guide to Holiness (by John Chapman)

What is holiness? Why do I need it? And why is it such a struggle for me to achieve holiness in my everyday life?

In A Sinner's Guide to Holiness, well-known evangelist John Chapman explores what the Bible has to say about holiness—where it begins, how it makes progress in our lives, and its ultimate fulfilment as we are changed into Christ's glorious likeness on the Last Day.

This book is a timely publication in this day and age, when we have often lost sight of the holiness of God. And when we do, it seems like an impossible task to achieve our own holiness. But 'Chappo' tells us that becoming holy is a vital, worthwhile goal for every Christian—even though the first 60 years may be the hardest!


Forgiving Hitler (by Kel Richards)

Kathy Diosy's life story, as told by author and broadcaster Kel Richards, makes riveting reading. From the time she saw Hitler, through the horrors of war and family separation, Kathy struggled with bitterness and hatred. Later in life, half a world away, she discovered that forgiving and being forgiven go together.

This beautifully presented volume is a biography with a difference.

A timely reminder of how peace can be found after terrible atrocities.




It's going to be a tough decision as these are all really good books (and small too! ;-)). If you have any preference or any comment you'd like to make about these books, please feel free to leave a comment. I'll be making a decision by next week.

The VHCC Book Club

I have been thinking a lot about how I can grow more in my knowledge and understanding of God, and how I can bring to the fore aspects of my faith in my life EVERYDAY, not just on Sunday. I wanted to find something that would activate my Christian thinking throughout the week and get my mind really engaged. I have never been good at reading Christian books, but I know that when I do read them, I'm better off for it.

SO, the VHCC Book Club has been brought into fruition.

As Christians we need to be actively thinking about what God is saying to us though his word, the Bible. But, I feel that I need to do more than just read the Bible. It is my hope that through reading Christian books we may be better equipped to know how to respond to the challenges we face everyday. It's also valuable for us to be encouraging and challenging each other in our Christian thinking.

How are we going to do this? We are going to read one book every six weeks. Every week I will write a blog post about the book and the members of the Book Club will post comments in response to my post, thereby encouraging each other in sharing our thoughts and responses to the book. Sound good?

For this to really work I would love to have a group of people who are committed to the idea and committed to reading and commenting on the blog. If I have a core group that comment then that will kick-start others to comment. Also, by writing your thoughts on what you read it's helping you to think more about it and to remember what you actually read.

Will you join me?